15/10/2013 2:42 pm  #1


Bing And Rosie - New "overdubs"

Many visitors to this board will remember the orchestral overdubs of original radio material issued not long after Bing's death. Those tracks placed a full orchestra over the small Buddy Cole group. The set was produced by Ken Barnes and Pete Moore arranged and conducted. 

Thane Cooper has been quick off the mark in discovering another, new attempt, with a CD entitled "Bing Crosby & Rosemary Clooney: The New Recordings" available from Good Music - their website here http://good-music.biz/bing.html

but we are promised that it will shortly be available elsewhers.

YouTube has samples here



LATER NOTE: It appears that this clip may no longer be available due to rights restrictions,  Feb. 2020.

The aim has apparently been different to the Ken Barnes production - the producer here is Larry Jordan, who has been responsible for a number of overdubbings of Jim Reeves and other "C & W" performers' recordings. He says he has attempted to replicate note for note existing instrumentals, overlaying them on the original to produce a clean stereo version. In doing this he has used some 28 tracks of radio material, though some are of Rosie's solos. 

You can read what he says on a Jim Reeves discussion board here 
http://members3.boardhost.com/jimreeves/thread/1381285424.html

I have to admit to mixed views. Undoubtedly the sound is fantastic, genuine stereo, and the musical effect is good, achieved with taste,  but  - - - 

I wonder what others think?


 

Last edited by Richard Baker (29/2/2020 6:57 pm)

 

15/10/2013 6:20 pm  #2


Re: Bing And Rosie - New "overdubs"

I seem to remember reading at one time that Gary was going to do some over-dubbing with Bing, along the lines that Natalie Cole did with Nat. It never happened, thank goodness, after what he said about Bing and then have the hide to do duets with Dad.

 

15/10/2013 7:30 pm  #3


Re: Bing And Rosie - New "overdubs"

     Thread Starter
 

16/10/2013 12:44 am  #4


Re: Bing And Rosie - New "overdubs"

I'm enjoying the mp3 set I bought of the Bing and Rosie radio show. I don't think they need any overdubs. I will check out the video you posted here Richard. I'm sure it sounds great. Bing and Rosie sound great either way to me.


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17/10/2013 12:17 am  #5


Re: Bing And Rosie - New "overdubs"

Richard,

The video that you posted here does sound amazing; however, I have never been a fan of overdubs, even when, as in this case, they are well done. For example, I have the 2-CD set of the Barnes-Moore overdubs of Bing tracks and don't dislike it, but I much prefer Bing's original recordings with Buddy Cole, even if the arrangements are sparse. I feel the same way about the Jim Reeves material that was overdubbed after his tragic death. Reeves was also a fantastic vocalist, and I feel like more intimate arrangements suit his music best.

 

02/2/2020 2:32 am  #6


Re: Bing And Rosie - New "overdubs"

In the recent thread about the new Bing with London Symphony Orchestra (and with modern choral groups) Christmas CD, someone mentioned this CD in making a comparison.  To address this CD specifically, I thought I'd bump this old thread about it.

I hadn't paid much attention to this CD any previous times I may have seen it listed for sale and didn't realize it was mixing Bing and Rosie with new accompaniment, as the Christmas CD does.  Considering every year there will be new Christmas compilations of Bing music, I have somewhat broader standards for what might be done with Christmas songs.  Also with many of the older compilations still available using earlier recording versions, it is not like a new compilation wipes them away.

I apply different standards to a recording like this one. Since for average listeners there aren't many versions of Bing and Rosie duets not on their original two albums made together.  To find out more about the album, I visited the CD company's webpage for it < https://good-music-store.myshopify.com/products/bing-crosby-rosemary-clooney-the-new-recordings  > ,  In addition to reading their explanation of the project, I also listened to one of the sets of audio clips they provide links to.

My impressions of the clips:
-- One of the Crosby-Clooney duets had the accompaniment much too loud for anyone to clearly hear and appreciate the deft interplay of rhythms between Bing and Rosie's different vocal parts. (negative score for that)
-- Some of the next tracks didn't have that problem.  I recall a Bing solo that sounded rather good. (positive scores for those)
-- Toward the end of that set of clips I realized that the Rosie song I was listening to was actually one from her album with Perez Prado, "A Touch of Tobasco."  The "NEW" accompaniment  was tame and bland compared to the original album, which has been re-released on CD, though I love listening to my original vinyl copy.  What moron thought they could improve on Perez Prado's band?  (double negative score for this one).

I decided not to listen to more of the sample audio clips.  I had learned enough.  The CD was obviously going to be a mixed bag, some acceptable tracks, but perhaps just as many that were either poorly done or needlessly done. 

There is another reason I wouldn't be interested in buying the CD.  There are only 7 Crosby-Clooney duets on it.  I can't consider it a duet album with so few duets.


-- 

 

 

02/2/2020 4:11 am  #7


Re: Bing And Rosie - New "overdubs"

OK, now you're talking about one of my favorite Bing CDs.  I have it on my computer play list and I can't get enough of it everytime a song pops up from it.   Now what I didn't realize till I looked at the whole CD is that there are 9 solo Rosie songs on it.   I forgot there were any Rosie solos since I only put the Bing or Bing-Rosie songs on my playlist.   I see this as my only criticism of this CD, I'd rather have all Bing or Bing-Rosie songs stereofied rather than all those solo Rosies..   I like Rosie, but if I wanted a Rosie CD I'd buy it.   Anyway,, after all, there are 27 songs on this one CD, so minus 9 is still a great buy of Bing TRUE stereofied songs.   Give me these re-orchestrated stereo versions over Buddy Coles organ music anytime.  Just listen to the superb stereo versions now of "My Funny Valentine" (such an improvement over both Buddy's organ original and the Pete Moore version)  also "Only Forever", I love the orch. and the stereo singing of Bing & Rosie here,  and though the theme from Gone With The WInd is a song that has never moved me I do love the true really stereo orchestrated version of this song on this CD, what an improvement over the lousy organ version.  And Good Night Sweet Dreams Marylou, while not the greatest song in the world still sound fantastic in its stereo version.   The September Medley is also a vast improvement now with a stereo orchestra backing and great reverberating voice soundings.  Another vast improvement over the organ original.   I love this CD!

 

02/2/2020 6:58 pm  #8


Re: Bing And Rosie - New "overdubs"

Of course, tastes and motivations differ.  And I suppose wanting an excellent stereophonic rendering could be high on some listeners' lists. Being just old enough to have had some favorite monaural LPs at a time when Stereo copies of the same albums cost twice as much and I couldn't afford them, I never cultivated the idea that monaural was less acceptable. For example, I don't feel disappointed that my copy of the "How the West Was Won" album is the mono and not the stereo release. It's in good condition and sounds great. But then, that's my taste, not everybody's.

Also, I can recognize that a great deal of the motivation for re-orchestrated Crosby recordings is a lot of listeners' dislike of Buddy Cole, or at least his electric organ playing. Perhaps it makes me an oddball, but I particularly like Buddy Cole as an arranger and as a musician. The main thing I like about Buddy's arranging is that I don't recall ever hearing a Buddy Cole arrangement that made it hard to hear any nuance of Bing's singing. Perhaps others forget about that aspect of the arrangements if they very much dislike the parts of the same songs when Bing is not singing and we only hear Cole and his trio or a larger ensemble playing, like the Dixieland band. A lot of attention is given to Cole's electric organ playing, but that would only affect minority of the recordings.

Pehaps I am further an oddball for liking Buddy Cole's electric organ playing. It marks a time when the Hammond was still newly being embraced by a variety of jazz and pop musicians, each exploring differing aspects of the instrument's potential. Buddy Cole decided not to imitate his piano stylings, or even his pipe organ effects (he had been a virtuoso theater pipe organist in his youth, before coming to California). Buddy Cole struck out in a new direction with the electric organ. If more followed that direction, we might think more highly of what he did now. He may have been more of a voice crying in the wilderness than a harbinger of what was to come in pop and jazz electric organ playing.

But I see his electric organ playing as but one small aspect of what was produced by this exceedingly talented keyboardist.  Keep in mind that when the more famous Cole, Nat King Cole, left the piano bench to stand before the microphone--a major transition in his career--Buddy Cole was hired to replace Nat at the piano in his next concert tours!   Buddy wasn't just one of Bing's musical pals getting a lot of work on that basis.

Last edited by Steve Fay (02/2/2020 6:58 pm)

 

07/2/2020 4:51 am  #9


Re: Bing And Rosie - New "overdubs"

This album bugs me in another way than what you've said, as the arrangements are good, maybe a bit loud, but it sounds like the instruments are synths in other words, fake, and don't fit. Even if they were recorded live they don't sound it from what I've heard. 

Speaking of the Barnes and Moore overdubs, what are the names of the CDs? I can't find any versions of the songs on YouTube and I'd like to listen to them (along with the London Palladium CD which is very expensive - and rare - the only times I've found it).


Every time it rains, it rains pennies from heaven.
 

07/2/2020 11:33 pm  #10


Re: Bing And Rosie - New "overdubs"

ModernBingFan0377 wrote:

Speaking of the Barnes and Moore overdubs, what are the names of the CDs? I can't find any versions of the songs on YouTube and I'd like to listen to them (along with the London Palladium CD which is very expensive - and rare - the only times I've found it).

So far as the Pete Moore overdubs are concerned, go to the online discography, the page covering CD issues here 
and use your browser's search on the word "overdub". You'll find several. 
The best set in my view was the Tenth Anniversary Collection 3 cd set shown on Discogs here, where there are several offered for sale.  

Similarly a Palladium CD here 

     Thread Starter
 

29/2/2020 4:45 am  #11


Re: Bing And Rosie - New "overdubs"

I clicked on Richard's post but the message is that copyright prevents me from hearing it. Pity!

 

29/2/2020 7:03 pm  #12


Re: Bing And Rosie - New "overdubs"

Graham Pascoe wrote:

I clicked on Richard's post but the message is that copyright prevents me from hearing it. Pity!

Graham, Thanks for drawing attention to that. I have attempted to play the clip using different proxy settings - i.e. identifying myself as being in different localities, and none work. Clearly Youtube believe rights are contravened and the notice relating to "Your country" is in fact comprehensive. I have added a note to my original post.
 

     Thread Starter
 

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