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Didn't notice this mentioned anywhere in the forum, sorry if I've missed it. The Bing Sings Sinatra Songbook and The Bing & Rosemary Radio Recordings CDs are on itunes for digital downloading.
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Thank you for drawing attention to that, Lillisputian.
Also available is 'Bing Sings The Great American Songbook' This album contained some duplication with items in the Mosaic set, but it is possible to download the few unique individual tracks from the original, with some cost saving.
In fact there is a great deal now available both from iTunes and Amazon as downloads.
I can't give a link to the appropriate section in US iTunes as my system reverts to the UK branch by default each time I access. HELP! somebody, please.
Last edited by Richard Baker (27/3/2011 11:58 am)
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And also . . . A Southern Memoir!
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I have now been able to get into the system far enough to provide a link to the Great American Songbook
The Christmas Sessions
Seasons
The Great Country Hits
The Sinatra Songbook
Songs I Wish I Had Sung
A Christmas Sing With Bing Around The World
Hey Jude
Never Be Afraid/The Emperor's New Clothes
Sing Along With Bing (AKA Thoroughly Modern Bing)
- Just a few I noticed either because they were recent issues or because they have otherwise been unavailable for some time.
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Beware! "Hey Jude" and "Songs I Wish I Had Sung" both seem to be running slow. What is it with these downloads? Do you agree Richard? I'm beginning to worry that it's my computer.
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Malcolm Macfarlane wrote:
Beware! "Hey Jude" and "Songs I Wish I Had Sung" both seem to be running slow. What is it with these downloads? Do you agree Richard? I'm beginning to worry that it's my computer.
I'll have a listen on a sample track or two. There have been several instances where I've had my suspicions, without being totally certain, but what is a reliable comparator?
I had thought that a good CD player should be 'right', but how far can one rely on anything? Rarely does my CD player readout of track timing agree with the printed sleeve figures. Then have the originals always been transferred at the correct speeds? (bearing in mind that many are copied from original commercial 78s or LPs rather then original source material).
My LP player has an illuminated stroboscope (with a speed adjustment) but a query has been raised on that because it was suggested there is a possibility the strobe might have been set up for a mains frequency of 50 cycles rather than 60 cycles per second - in which case I might have been listening to LPs at the wrong speed for years!). Just call me bewildered.
Then I haven't a clue about how accurate computers are. Certainly it is the case that most use quite cheap CD/DVD player mechanisms compared to the dedicated music player units. The soundcard and associated hardware and software should output at the correct speed but possibly there is a variant there?
My very first player had the answer - if it sounded slow you wound the hand crank a few more turns to give more oomph to the spring. One wind was not quite sufficient to keep the the speed up for a full side!
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Malcolm Macfarlane wrote:
Beware! "Hey Jude" and "Songs I Wish I Had Sung" both seem to be running slow. What is it with these downloads? Do you agree Richard? I'm beginning to worry that it's my computer.
Some answers , but I don't know what to make of them.
I took two specific examples, not feeling inclined to download many tracks of which I have perfectly good examples.
Firstly 'When My Baby Smiles at Me' from Songs I Wish I Had Sung'
My copy, from my own ancient LP, runs at 3.06 minutes, whilst the downloaded version runs at 3.00. (actually a fraction of a second over) In honesty I cannot tell the difference in this slightly less than 6 second difference.
Here is a copy of the computer screen -
My mono LP track at the bottom and the faster downloaded version at the top. The scan also reveals that my LP produces a considerably greater dynamic range.
'Hey Jude' - the title track, produces a very different answer. The downloaded version runs out at 4.04 minutes, whilst my CD (dubbed some time back from LP) is timed at 3.50 - a whole 14 seconds faster.
My original LP is within a couple of seconds of this.
Here the scan is of stereo tracks, download upper, CD lower but the download does not seem to be stereo - or if it is it differentiates much less between tracks. There is considerable difference in the dynamics with the download seeming to start much quieter though there is much greater absolute range within the CD. My LP shows similar characteristics to the CD, with possibly even greater range again, which might go to show that something is lost in the processing.
Conclusion. I fully concur with Malcolm about Hey Jude, but on the sample track I took from 'Songs I Wish I Had Sung' it is marginally the other way. Hey Jude is very slow and it sounds obvious. It might just be that what we have is inconsistency rather than consistent slowness, but as I implied in my earlier post, I'm hard put to guess where the problems/ faults might lie. Deeper exploration using other tracks and other albums might produce more answers. Has anybody any idea where the iTunes (and other) versions of albums like this originate? Obviously they might be 'ripping' CDs themselves but what of the material never issued on CD? Are they getting tapes under agreements with original issuers? Suggestions from anyone who might know, please?
Last edited by Richard Baker (29/3/2011 8:59 am)
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Thanks for that. You have reassured me about "Hey Jude". That's a relief becuase I was beginning to have doubts.
With "When My Baby Smiles at Me" you say "My copy, from my own ancient LP, runs at 3.00 minutes (actually a fraction of a second over), whilst the downloaded version runs at 3.06. In honesty I cannot tell the difference in this slightly less than 6 second difference. " So your version is faster but the computer screen indicates the opposite.
My version from the Japanese CD runs at 3:11 whilst the one offered for download gives a time of 3:22. It sounds noticeably slower. I am more confused.
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Malcolm Macfarlane wrote:
Thanks for that. You have reassured me about "Hey Jude". That's a relief becuase I was beginning to have doubts.
With "When My Baby Smiles at Me" you say "My copy, from my own ancient LP, runs at 3.00 minutes (actually a fraction of a second over), whilst the downloaded version runs at 3.06. In honesty I cannot tell the difference in this slightly less than 6 second difference. " So your version is faster but the computer screen indicates the opposite.
My version from the Japanese CD runs at 3:11 whilst the one offered for download gives a time of 3:22. It sounds noticeably slower. I am more confused.
Malcolm, You are quite correct - I had reversed my figures. I have edited my post which now shows the correct figures. Very sorry.
My timings are from first sign of any sound to the last dying note, and the 3.06 would easily equate to 3.11 in displayed timings, given the usual gaps.
I'm baffled. Consistency in conclusions about 'Hey Jude' at least on the sample, (it sounds terrible) with ears and technology all at one, but 'Songs I Wish I Had Sung' has produced considerable discrepancy. I am contemplating further investigation, which probably necessitates more downloads.
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I've now looked at the downloads again.
I have tested a sample (half of all) and have also compared the stated running times against what I believe to be the 'normal' running times for all the other tracks.
I am positive that both albums 'Hey Jude' and 'Songs I Wish I Had Sung' run anything between 6 and 9% slow. It's possible that 'rounding' and differences in gaps between tracks would account for the apparent inconsistency between these extremes.
The slow speed includes 'When My Baby Smiles at Me' that I previously measured as being faster!
I have also listened carefully to the sample snatches for the other tracks from these albums available on iTunes. They all sound too slow (and low).
Here are the detailed differences.
Download Seconds Original Seconds Difference Percentage Variation
HEY JUDE
Hey Jude 248 231 17 7%
Little Green Apples 216 196 20 9%
Living On Love 170 158 12 7%
Just For Tonight 136 126 10 7%
Both Sides Now 202 187 15 7%
Lonely Street 162 150 12 7%
The Straight Life 191 178 13 7%
Its All In The Game 242 230 12 5%
More and More 159 150 9 6%
Those Were The Days 333 316 17 5%
SONGS I WISH I HAD SUNG
April Showers 177 167 10 6%
When My Baby 202 190 12 6%
My Blue Heaven 174 164 10 6%
A Little Kiss 190 176 14 7%
Prisoner Of Love 212 200 12 6%
Ain't Misbehavin' 185 173 12 6%
Paper Doll 195 181 14 7%
This Love Of Mine 183 169 14 8%
Thanks For The Memory 197 182 15 8%
Blues In The Night 206 193 13 6%
Mona Lisa 196 183 13 7%
Memories Are Made Of This 194 180 14 7%
(Sorry that I don't seem to be able to line these columns up properly)
All figures compare the stated timings on the iTunes site with the stated timings on my CDs copied from LP. I have deliberatley not processed anything to measure start and finishing points in view of the comment below. My equipment is good and the record sounds 'right'. The downloads definately sound 'wrong', and unless you have the means of speeding them up (and altering the pitch) I would avoid them.
Now why am I getting a different answer to that which I had earlier? Measuring of the same track now gives a different answer!
A possible reason is that my latest measurements were on the unprocessed MP3 downloads. My earlier measurement was on a file converted from MP3 to WAV format. (Only done as a matter of preference because I tend naturally to work with WAV files). I have had some recent problems with the conversion software, but apart from the possibility that it has incorrectly processed the conversion, might it be catching some problem in the MP3 file and correcting it in the conversion process? Another possibility is that I just touched a few incorrect buttons! I don't know because I have no adequate technical knowledge.
Last edited by Richard Baker (29/3/2011 3:21 pm)
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Again, many thanks for your thorough investigation. I'll post warnings on the i-tunes store.
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- And if such things matter to you, the download version of 'Hey Jude' is in mono.
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Talking of speeds.
When I was a kid and visiting my grandmother, after greeting her I would ask 'Can I play Bing, please?'.
The record was 'Thanks'/Black Moonlight' 78. Played it on the wind up gramophone. The record had been played
so often that I had to slow the speed down to make the voice sound like Bing.
It's amazing when one thinks back how these shellac records survived having a heavy arm and steel needle
to play them. Thought they'd soon wear out and go through to the other side and just finish up with
a lot of shellac on the turntable.