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Jon Oye keeps adding images to his site Contemplations on Classic Movies and Music
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- Jim Determan
- Sustaining Member
Offline - Registered: 04/2/2012
- Posts: 53
Re: Did Wig mail new books yet?
I have the Paul Whiteman "Greatest Hits" CD, CCM-061 (it actually says CCM-061-2 on both the jewel box spine and the disc). The liner notes for "My Blue Heaven" say 7-6-27 / Victor 20828, which would be the commercial release. Timing is 2:55. It could still be the test. I will compare it to the Jonzo, but it would help if I knew what I was listening for.
Richard, I agree with the others, you and Wig are both invaluable resources for all of us Bing fans.
Your online discography is fantastic, as is the new edition of Wig's discography.
- Steve Fay
- Senior Member
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- From: Fulton County, Illinois, USA
- Registered: 26/5/2011
- Posts: 359
Re: Did Wig mail new books yet?
What a delight to explore the info about the 78s and to begin connect my own 78s to that level of detail I've never had before! But, after looking up about ten of them, I have a couple of 78-related discographic questions:
(1) How do I fit my Decca records with 5-digit record numbers into the timeline? For example, I have master/take numbers DLA 908-B and 909-B on Decca record 1518 (shown in the original release column for them), but I also have them paired on Decca record 25021. I can understand why only the orginal release might be listed, but is some catalog of later releases compiled somewhere by somebody?
(2) Should I expect that the master and take numbers actually pressed into the lacquer are always accurate? I have found in the few records I examined, all from the mid to late 1930s, some variations from the master/take numbers listed in the new book. I don't know if these are alternate releases, rare mistake pressings, or something else. The most fascinating of these, so far, is "That Sly Old Gentleman," recorded 1939-Mar 10, side A of record De 2360. The book says the master/take number for that side should be "DLA 1729-A," but the lacquer-impressed number on my record very clearly says "DLA 1729-DD." It's the only DD take on these first records I've looked at; all the others have been A or B.
Last edited by Steve Fay (02/2/2015 2:25 pm)
- Richard Baker
- Moderator
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- From: Kenilworth, Warwickshire, Engl
- Registered: 20/11/2010
- Posts: 1,542
Re: Did Wig mail new books yet?
Steve
Are you sure that the matrix number on your record of "That Sly Old Gentleman" is not DLA 1720?
Some matrix suffixes reveal alternative takes, but different suffixes are not necessarily proof of different takes!
In the case of "That Sly Old Gentleman" matrices with a suffix B, DD, FF and 1 all appear to be dubs of DLA 1720-A. So what you have is a different pressing made from a new master made by dubbing from the original.
"Alternate Bing Crosby" by Colin Pugh is most helpful here.
There were many reissues of large numbers of the more popular titles with different catalog numbers, sometimes with different pairings of songs.
"Bing Crosby - A Discography, Radio Program List and Filmograpy" by Timothy A Morgereth contains fairly comprehensive listings of the Matrix and catalog numbers but there are errors in places and it does not for example note the point about the DD and FF etc. matrices above. It covers the period up to the end of the 78 era.
Unless you have some knowledge of how the companies numbered their issues at different times it might be hard going to form an idea of issue dates. Some numbers were used for sets, and because they followed different formats cannot be placed in sequence. For example, to revert to "That Sly Old Gentleman" there were issues on DE 2360, DE 11025, DE 88089 and DE Y-5361 (and British Brunswick BR 02787). Some of the pre-Decca recordings came out on a variety of labels and numbers, (including department store and mail order labels). For example "Some Of These Days" from 1932 appeared on at least 17 different issues on many labels.
Fred Reynolds' "The Crosby Collection 1926 - 1977" (five volumes) is also invaluable and personally I use all three of the works together.
Your record DLA 908 / 9 "When You Dream About Hawaii /Sail Along Silv'ry Moon" was issued in the same pairing four times.
You might find this site for the 78 online Discographical Project helpful
By the way, matrix DLA 1729 is of Frances Langford with the Harry Sosnik Orchestra singing "This Is It"
Last edited by Richard Baker (02/2/2015 3:55 pm)
- Steve Fay
- Senior Member
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- From: Fulton County, Illinois, USA
- Registered: 26/5/2011
- Posts: 359
Re: Did Wig mail new books yet?
Richard Baker wrote:
In the case of "That Sly Old Gentleman" matrices with a suffix B, DD, FF and 1 all appear to be dubs of DLA 1720-A. So what you have is a different pressing made from a new master made by dubbing from the original.
Dubbing--that's interesting and makes sense. It certainly doesn't make sense that Bing would have to do so many takes that they would be starting through the alphabet a second time to label them. 1729 instead of 1720? Probably a mistake in my notes I was looking at while typing my post, but I know the DD is right. I looked at that over and over.
Several of my Crosby 78s also are labeled as being part of sets, but that doesn't in every case mean they vary in the record number from the original release. I did find at least one example of a song with a certain master/take number paired with a different A or B side song in a later release.
- 48blonde
- Senior Member
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- From: Staten Island
- Registered: 11/1/2013
- Posts: 408
Re: Did Wig mail new books yet?
i got the book the other day but couldn't post about it. I had no phone and internet. The recent storms here produced alot of ice. I hope I don't lose it again. Anyway, the book is excellent! I love the photo of Bing with the sweater on. Very Handsome!
Peace and Love!
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