Lobosco wrote:

Ole blue eyes Frank Sinatra was born on this day in 1915. My grandfather also was born on this day in 1928 - he would have been 82. My grandfather always hated Sinatra. It ticked him off that he shared his birthday with Sinatra, and my grandfather would call him Frank Snotrag...not sure where he came up with that.

Anyways, happy birthday Grandpap and ole blue eyes!

http://greatentertainersarchives.blogspot.com/2010/12/born-on-this-day-frank-sinatra.html

Frank had superb breath control,  a good way with styling the songs, a wonderful ability to play around with the rhythm.  But I just couldn't like his voice. To me it sounds reedy, metallic and forced compared to Bing's warm, powerful and relaxed delivery.

Having said that I do think that Bing and Frank did some fantastic scenes together - in High Society and 'Robin & the Seven Hoods' (not a fantastic film in itself but some memorable scenes and songs) and they also interacted well on radio.

paulmock wrote:

Well....I like Bing but I am 1st, last and ALWAYS a Sinatraphile!!!! I spent the weekend celebrating the 95th anniversary of his birth by listening to and watching Mr. S exclusively. It was wonderful! He was truly an American original.

Paul.   

I was sure that caricature thumbnail you use was not of you!

As I said, Frank was superb in many ways - and he managed to surmount the handicap of that voice! But a disciple rarely surpasses the leader.

And surely that is what Frank admitted to being?!!!

My computer tells me that I have 824 of Frank's recordings but I probably play one of his for every ten of Bing's with a heavy emphasis on the early years - back to James and Dorsey.

I forgot to suggest that Bing supporters who hate Frank, and vice versa, are probably a left over from the days when the publicity gurus wanted to believe that Bing and Frank were feuding.  It wasn't true!  On the contrary there appeared to be huge mutual respect throughout their carrers.

Apples and oranges, fellows! Both are delicious and definitely satisfy. You can't go wrong with either.

My Bing "taste" so far is of the early jazz sides and the '70's.  He definitely ended his career on a brilliant note with those fabulous London (and other label) albums. I just adore them!

JoeM wrote:

I have to disagree. I go back and forth between Bing and Sinatra as being my favorite singer. I agree that Sinatra was inspired by Bing, but I think what makes him unique is that he did not copy Bing, but developed his own style. Much like Bing was inspired by but did not copy Jolson.

Joe

I welcome you to this discussion forum. If my light comment thrown into a discussion that highlighted my reason for preferring Bing as an artist to Frank has provoked you to sign up and make your own contribution perhaps I should be more provocative in future!.

I think we can agree that Bing and Frank were both superlative at what they did.  And I don't think that we are really disagreeing about anything anyway. Bing was named by very many of the major stars who came after him as their inspiration. This in no way prevented them from developing their own styles and becoming distinctive in their own right.  A few consciously imitated him and that probably did their careers no good in the long run. But within the broad approach - the relaxed, non 'projecting', intimate style of addressing the audience from close up via the microphone, that was Bing's, and all major artists within the popular genre who followed operated within it.  Singers before had adopted the 'classic' style of projection as in a concert hall with no microphone. That was the mould that Bing broke. And the new style that he created was the one that those who followed adopted.

I suspect that most fans of Bing will also be fans to some degree of Frank (and Dean and others) and vice-versa. I certainly am. My collection of Frank's records is exceeded many times over by those of Bing, but in some households it would still be regarded as very large, so yes, I like Frank too. Any perceived rivalry is artificial. But sometimes good fun.

Well you listen to Bing from the 40s to the 60s, and even early 70s, and you find he sounds virtually the same, same tone and same way of singing. Bing's voice once it found it's place stay put, besides the range steadily going down. His voice took a hit after half a lung was removed, which would affect any singer, but still stays really true and close to his style compared to Sinatra in his 70s whose voice became weaker and started to fail.

Frank's on the other hand after he found his perfect ground in the 50s with Capitol, it really only stayed until the early 60s with the same level on ballads. His voice on ballads got spotty to me after that, there are good examples and bad. Frank's voice took the biggest hit during his retirement. His voice went from smooth-ish to a harsh, rough voice. I look to his performance of My Way right before his retirement and his Carnegie Hall performance in the 74. Still miles ahead of most of today's singer, yes, but then I listen to a performance in '89 and compare to Bing at the same age singing his version, That's What Life Is All About. Bing has an advantage of recording this song around the same time of singing it live and Bing sounded better in this live version than his recorded version.

I also compared them using videos of similar performances, give or take a year, and found that Bing had the stronger voice at the end just by the way of the mic. Frank held his mic very close to his mouth (1-2 inches) in the performance I watched and he still sounded quiet, Bing on the other hand was like almost listening to a version of the 60s. His voice was in marvelous form projecting loud and clear while still seeming relaxed and he had the mic 6-8 inches away from his mouth.

What I found from this vocal comparisons, Frank's voice worked better in the studio during these times, and Bing's voice worked better live. Bing's voice lasted until the moment he died, while as a certain Francis Albert's voice didn't last too well. It goes to show though that, Bing's voice was natural, while Frank had to work for his voice and eventually from a technique standpoint did get better than Crosby for a while, but Crosby prevailed in the end. One thing I think we can all agree on, and in the words, although truncated and summarized, of Frank, "Bing and I are singers not crooners." They swooned and crooned at times, but you look at classic crooners like Columbo or even Vallee, they are very soft voiced. Bing and Frank can get soft, but they can do a lot more. 

Ron Field wrote:

Would have been great if Bing had lived into his 90’s like Frankie Laine, Tony Bennett and Tony Martin.

I agree!  Bing was in the middle of a rebirth as a recording artist. And I think he had a rebirth as an actor on the horizon, perhaps in both TV and film.  He's quite good as one of the dramatic leads in "Doctor Cook's Garden," and, despite the subpar production values of "Stagecoach," Bing is terrific as a comic character actor playing Doc Boone.  Neither were even singing roles, to boot.

Last edited by Steve Fay (25/3/2020 9:53 pm)