04/11/2012 9:38 pm  #1


Buddy Cole Recordings- Summary of CD Appearances

Hi everyone
I'm in love with my Mosaic boxed set and I'd like to collect the rest of the Buddy Cole recordings,  From reading thru the discography, the balance of these recordings are scattered across many, many CDs.  So, short of going thru the discography line by line, is there an easier way to collate a list of all the CD's I need to buy?  I'm looking for a list of CD's, each indicating the number of recordings contained therein that are NOT on the Mosaic set.

For example:
On the Sentimental Side (4)
Shall We Dance (iTunes only) (12)
etc.
etc.

I'd also like to know how many are still in the vault and not available on any CD.

Thanks so much!
-Greg

 

05/11/2012 7:09 pm  #2


Re: Buddy Cole Recordings- Summary of CD Appearances

Greg wrote:

I'd also like to know how many are still in the vault and not available on any CD.

Greg, that part of your question is relatively easy. In answer to one of the other threads which you started I gave a link to the Crosby Clooney radio shows at the ''Bing'' magazine site. Scroll down to the bottom and you will find what I believe to be a definitive list of the Cole tracks in alphabetic order. This might be upset if more are discovered in that vault but if there are they are either totally unused titles or alternatve unused takes of issued titles.

Alternatively use this link which takes you directly there. http://www.bingmagazine.co.uk/bingmagazine/final2.htm#buddy

As to what is on or not on CD, that is, as you have discovered, a little more problematic.  I' ll do my best but as always hope others might expand or correct.

Avoid what I think might be the obvious  kicking off point by seeking out the tracks that were remastered for commercial release by Decca more or less contemporaneously with the recording dates and issued at the time on LPs ''New Tricks'' and ''Some Fine Old Chestnuts'', and reissued together on a CD by MCA because Mosaic covered them all (I think).

You have the Mosaic set, but all the recent issues promoted by Bing Crosby Enterprises through either Collector's Choice or others with the exceptions of ''Seasons'' and ''A Southern Memoir'' contain some Cole tracks, though sometimes merely as a 'filler' and there is some duplication. ''The Great American Songbook'' consists wholly of Mosaic tracks except for four individual items.

The ''Sinatra Songbook'' has 13 tracks, ''On The Sentimental Side'' has 5 but beware as these tracks are not typical - Buddy on his electric organ, not the small instrumental group.

''With All My Heart'' has 7, ''So Rare'' 8, ''Bing In Dixieland'' 2 but also has many with the Dixieland group (or the Firehouse Five, while ''El Senor Bing'' and ''Return to The Paradise Islands each have 5.

The double CD ''The Crosby Clooney Radio Sessions'' has a couple of tracks on CD1 but all those on CD2 (possibly less four tracks of advertising material) will meet your request and this issue touches on a thread which you started about the Crosby - Clooney shows, while ''Bing On Broadway'' has 19 tracks in total of which all but two are I think of the group.

But you need to check out the precise titles on each as there are duplications. To the best of my memory the issues I have named  have some unique titles.

Then there is the matter of the ''overdubbed'' versions, over which there are divided opinons though most seem supportive. You probably know that some of the original Buddy Cole tracks had orchestral accompaniments very tastefully overlaid on them shortly after Bing's death, and were later reissued in a 3CD set ''Tenth Anniversary Collection'' in 1987. Some of the tracks have reappeared  in various combinations. Some of the tracks in the ''Tenth Anniversary Collection'' were altered from the first LP versions by the further addition of a small vocal supporting group.

 

06/11/2012 5:58 am  #3


Re: Buddy Cole Recordings- Summary of CD Appearances

Thanks Richard
Here are the results of my unscientific study of the list provided on the bingmagazine website:

262 - Total songs recorded with Buddy Cole
160 - Total songs on the Mosaic boxed set

Leaving 102...

5 - on El Senor Bing
1 - on Bing In Dixieland
4 - on Sings the Great American Songbook
5 - on On the Sentimental Side
5 - on Return To Paradise Islands
36 - on Bing & Rosie
3 - on Shall We Dance?
7 - on With All My Heart
4 - on So Rare
4 - on Sings the Sinatra Songbook

Leaving 28 unaccounted for

After searching for those titles on the discography, here is what I found:

15 look to be officially unreleased in any format:

All The Time
Allegheny Moon
Among My Souvenirs
At Sundown
Big D
Blue Moon
Chee Chee-oo Chee (Sang The Little Bird)
Gigi
Heartaches By The Number
Hot Diggity (Dog Ziggity Boom)
I’ll Remember Today
Mister Sandman
Old Cape Cod
Rock Around The Clock (We're Gonna)
You'll Never Know[i]

13 titles do not appear on the discography.  What are these?

[i]Church Bells
Don’t Worry About Tomorrow
Moonlight Becomes You (as intro)
My, How The Time Goes By
Rain
Scarlet Ribbons
Side By Side* (as intro only)
Something In Common (intro only)
Surprise
Tammy
Thank Heaven For Little Girls
This Ole House
Village Of St. Bernadette, The

     Thread Starter
 

06/11/2012 6:05 am  #4


Re: Buddy Cole Recordings- Summary of CD Appearances

I'd like to add that between the Mosaic box and the subsequent 10 CCM/iTunes releases, a full 90% of the Buddy Cole tracks are now available in pristine sound.  That's quite an accomplishment.  On the downside, it doesn't appear that these 10 releases are available for digital download.  I don't normally download music, but I'm certainly not going to pay 10 bucks for the Dixieland CD, for example, to buy 1 song.

     Thread Starter
 

06/11/2012 9:32 am  #5


Re: Buddy Cole Recordings- Summary of CD Appearances

Greg

Some of the titles you list have indeed been issued, though I'll have to look up details and am currently rather pressed in other directions.

 

06/11/2012 4:46 pm  #6


Re: Buddy Cole Recordings- Summary of CD Appearances

Greg,

Of the tracks you list -

At Sundown
Heartaches By The Number
Old Cape Cod
You'll Never Know
- were all issued in the set of orchestral overdubbings. They sound good though of course totally different in ''feel'' to the originals.

You say

Greg wrote:

13 titles do not appear on the discography.  What are these?

Church Bells
Don’t Worry About Tomorrow
Moonlight Becomes You (as intro)
My, How The Time Goes By
Rain
Scarlet Ribbons
Side By Side* (as intro only)
Something In Common (intro only)
Surprise
Tammy
Thank Heaven For Little Girls
This Ole House
Village Of St. Bernadette, The

My discography is not a complete list of all songs performed by BIng. For that, go to the Songography on the ''Bing'' magazine site. 
I do, in respect of some of the broadcast shows, list all the songs, but I started out to list recordings - things tended to grow from there. Maybe, possibly, I'll cover greater ground, though if you think about it boudaries are almost limitless. Irrational perhaps, but especially given the format of the post General Electric radio shows, I have tended to list for those shows merely those titles that have been released on disc, though some of the tracks which you list are indeed in the discography. I suspect you might have looked in different sections.

However you do seem to have stumbled on a glitch - ''Rain'' and ''Church Bells '' from 1958 are in the song index, which is derived from the main listing, but do not seem to show up in the main list. They are definately in my database! Something gone wrong between database and internet posting, I'm afraid.

I think ''Don’t Worry About Tomorrow'' is also known by the shorter ''Don't Worry'', which is what I list, and I certainly list ''This Ole House''.

I was convinced in my own mind that ''Thank Heaven For Little Girls'' had been issued but for the time being I cannot find it!

 

14/11/2012 8:29 am  #7


Re: Buddy Cole Recordings- Summary of CD Appearances

Greg,

Interesting topic, at least for crazy discophile completists! I also like the Buddy Cole recordings, its nice to hear Bing with a jazz quartet (even if Cole would not have been my first choice pianist), and singing a lot of standards and other songs he didn't otherwise record.

A while ago I put together a little spreadsheet with a quick unscientific study like what you did, to try and figure out what was out there and what I had. At some point it would be nice to do a more accurate accounting. It is great that most of the material is now available in pristine sound from the BCE masters. Of course the devil is in the details! A few comments...

"This Ole House" is the Bing solo item on the Bing & Rosy set, so really there are 37 on that set (or 28 if you count each medley as one track, see below)

"Alleghany Moon", "Big D", and "Mr. Sandman" are all duets with Bing's son Lindsay, and "Rock Around the Clock" is solo by Lindsay with spoken comments from Bing (per the discography).

"Church Bells" and "Rain" are bonus tracks on the UK MCA "Some Fine Old Chestnuts & New Tricks" CD.
Also, the original 8 tracks from the 10" LP of "Some Fine Old Chestnuts" were recorded in 1953, and I'm pretty certain are not on the Mosaic set or included in the radio library count given below. The 4 additional tracks added to round out the 12" LP version are included though and appeared on the Mosaic set. Just to add to the confusion, there were Japanese releases of "Some Fine Old Chestnuts" and "New Tricks" as separate CDs, and the sound quality, particularly of "Chestnuts" is significantly better on the Japanese version, but although "Rain" is a bonus track on "New Tricks", "Church Bells" is not on the Japanese CDs.

I've heard a few of the other missing tracks in the overdubbed versions Richard mentioned, which are well done, but definitely have a different vibe. And some I've heard on unofficial releases, those include "Thank Heaven For Little Girls", "Scarlet Ribbons", "Mr. Sandman", "Moonlight Becomes You", and "My, How the Time Goes By" (a rollicking track, with Cole playing a jazzy r&b-ish organ, very different than the way he usually plays it). So they are out there. Hopefully BCE will be able to release them all at some point, they've released a lot of great material, but it's disappointing they've been rather quiet lately.

I don't know if you receive Bing magazine. When the Mosaic set came out, in the Winter 2009 No. 153 issue, page 5, there is an article on the CBS radio recordings 1954-1961 by Robert S. Bader, VP of marketing for BCE, and producer of the Mosaic set, where he gives some statistics on the recordings. To summarize, he says:
The master library for the 3 CBS radio shows consists of 253 selections (counting each song in the medley's separately gives 262, see below)
185 recorded for "The Bing Crosby Show" between Nov 1954 and Aug 1956
27 recorded in 1957 for "The Ford Road Show"
8 duets with Clooney in 1958 for "The Ford Road Show"
18 duets with Clooney in 1960 for "The Crosby-Clooney Show" (4 of these are medleys, he counts each medley as one track) (this appears to be incorrect, the Bing & Rosie set has 7 duets from 1960 and 12 from 1961 for a total of 19)
9 solo recordings in 1960
6 solo recordings in 1961
There were also 113 shortened edited versions of the masters created (to allow for more programming flexibility, "The Ford Road Show" was a 5 minute show), so technically there are a total of 366 masters.
Of the 185 tracks from "The Bing Crosby Show", 160 were on the Mosaic set. The 25 tracks held back included tracks with only organ accompaniment, and duets with Bing's son Lindsay. Also, some rejected alternate takes were held back, but I'm not sure if they contribute to the 185 track total. Four of these rejected alternates were on the So Rare set, along with 4 other tracks not on the Mosaic set.

I hope this is helpful and not too tedious.

 

05/6/2014 10:15 am  #8


Re: Buddy Cole Recordings- Summary of CD Appearances

Jim Determan wrote:

"Church Bells" and "Rain" are bonus tracks on the UK MCA "Some Fine Old Chestnuts & New Tricks" CD...  ...there were Japanese releases of "Some Fine Old Chestnuts" and "New Tricks" as separate CDs, and the sound quality, particularly of "Chestnuts" is significantly better on the Japanese version, but although "Rain" is a bonus track on "New Tricks", "Church Bells" is not on the Japanese CDs.

Yes, and that's a pity, because I finally received yesterday a copy of "Some Fine Old Chestnuts/New Tricks."  I've been searching for it on and off for years and finally got it for a reasonable price.  I have the Japanese CD issues of both albums, but I really wanted "Church Bells." 

But the sound quality on "Church Bells" on that UK two-fer is horrifying, in my opinion. It is, as they say, "No-Noised to death."  I can literally hear the noise reduction artifacts in the sound.  Just awful. 

I'd definitely recommend the old Japanese releases of those two albums, as they use no noise reduction whatsoever.

Last edited by Brian W. (05/6/2014 10:16 am)

 

05/6/2014 4:53 pm  #9


Re: Buddy Cole Recordings- Summary of CD Appearances

Brian W. wrote:

- -- but I really wanted "Church Bells." 

But the sound quality on "Church Bells" on that UK two-fer is horrifying, in my opinion. It is, as they say, "No-Noised to death."  I can literally hear the noise reduction artifacts in the sound.  Just awful. 

Brian, You've obviously got keen ears and top notch equipment. I'm not all that certain I'd go as far as agree on "No-Noised to death" and "horryfying". Many people would not notice it. I do hear some dampening of upper frequencies but not the obvious "pumping" that you might associate with excessive "no noise" treatment.

The "Through The Years" issue, Volume 10 does seem to me to present a clearer, more dynamic sound for "Church Bells" (as it does on, for example "Rain") but I'd have to hear them side by side to be totally certain of the identity of each. The most noticeable difference is on the chimes. But I's not a track I return to much. I just can't get to like the organ accompaniment from Buddy Cole. It might have been more appropriate to use a genuine church organ.
 
(Later addition)
I do, incidentally, agree that the Japanese issues are better than the "twofer". They are also (if you can find them) more expensive by a very significant margin.
 

Last edited by Richard Baker (05/6/2014 6:03 pm)

 

06/6/2014 9:26 am  #10


Re: Buddy Cole Recordings- Summary of CD Appearances

The "Twofer" combining "New Tricks" and "Some Fine Old Chestnuts"  was of course an official issue from the UK branch of MCA (on MCLD 19377 issued in 1998). As they would have had access to the original source material or something very close to it, and the original was itself quite good, being mainly from the 50s and on tape I do not understand why it might have been necessary to use any artificial noise suppression. If there was it would surely be just to take out a little tape hiss, which ought to have minimum impact on the wanted sounds.

I do know however of examples where much later recordings have been dealt with in that way and the last bit of "sparkle" has been lost. Such treatment is not usually very obvious to the casual listener, and there is always a fine balance to be struck between optimal noise removal and minimal impact on music.

But Brian, I have listened again to "Church Bells" closely on earphones and I still do not hear what you describe. Loss of some amplitude on higher frequencies when compared to some other copies I have (particularly the "Through The Years" CD) but no more, and quite subtle.
 

 

06/6/2014 9:17 pm  #11


Re: Buddy Cole Recordings- Summary of CD Appearances

I don't really, I just have a $20 pair of headphones hooked up to my computer.  Perhaps noise reduction isn't the source of the problem, but whole song sounds "muffled" to me.  And when I add a little high end in an audio editor, it sounds "weird."

The other thing I'm hearing is a pulsating between high and low frequencies.  Good example: At the 1:17 minute mark, on "When I'm on my way to church with you" -- note how the sound suddenly becomes clearer on the word "way" and remains that way for the rest of the line.  It does that at 00:19 as well, "The feeling that I get is heavenly," starting with the "ing" on "feeling."  You lose quite a bit of high frequency at that point and it seems to get overly bassy, not just in Bing's voice but on the track as a whole.  Then it seems to clear up on the world "heavenly."  (This is all more obvious if you boost the high end a bit with Audacity or the like.)  Maybe it's just the source material, I don't know.

 

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