Crosby Fan World / Universal giving Bing's masters to the Library of Congress

**Posted by Malcolm Macfarlane** 10/1/2011 3:37 pm

This is an interesting development. See http://www.hollywoodreporter.com/news/universal-music-donating-200k-master-69817

You will recall that many masters were lost in a fire so presumably Universal think this is a safer thing to do! Bing Crosby Enterprises were attempting to get Bing's masters back so how this will affect things I don't know.

**Posted by Richard Baker** 11/1/2011 11:13 am

Malcolm Macfarlane wrote:
This is an interesting development. See http://www.hollywoodreporter.com/news/universal-music-donating-200k-master-69817

You will recall that many masters were lost in a fire so presumably Universal think this is a safer thing to do! Bing Crosby Enterprises were attempting to get Bing's masters back so how this will affect things I don't know.

A very interesting development indeed, and with what consequences?? The reports all concentrate on the physical handover of masters. Does this imply something distinct from the rights or do the rights go too?

One of the reports has a spokesperson for UMG saying that there is nothing marketable or some similar implication. That has to be a joke. Maybe for a mass market manufacturer but have they never heard of niche marketing? Haven't they seen the pent up demand? Small scale, probably, but categorically there and ready to be capitalised upon if handled in the right way. I'm not just referring to Bing's recordings either. Perhaps this is an indication of why some in the record industry have lost their way.

Then there is the Library Of Congress. Will they make the recordings available for commercial exploitation? I assume from the outcome of the recent legal case that the Crosby family still have rights arising from everything UMG sells. Presumably the action of UMG cannot unilaterally remove those rights which will now arise in relation to the Library of Congress activities. ??? (VERY BIG QUESTION MARK)

**Posted by zanereed** 11/1/2011 3:35 pm

Malcolm and/or Richard,

Is there a place online or in print which lists which masters were lost?

Best regards,

Zane Johnson

**Posted by Malcolm Macfarlane** 11/1/2011 4:31 pm

<<Is there a place online or in print which lists which masters were lost?>>

Afraid not. Sorry!

**Posted by Malcolm Macfarlane** 11/1/2011 4:57 pm

Bit more info here. http://www.npr.org/blogs/therecord/2011/01/10/132803768/200-000-recordings-donated-to-library-of-congress

**Posted by zanereed** 11/1/2011 4:57 pm

Malcolm Macfarlane wrote:
<<Is there a place online or in print which lists which masters were lost?>>

Afraid not. Sorry!

Thank you for the quick reply, Malcolm - I assumed such was the case, and I now recall a few articles I read in the past regarding how much of what Universal lost in the fire (they weren't forthcoming to the press, at least).

Best regards,

Zane

**Posted by zanereed** 11/1/2011 5:09 pm

Richard Baker wrote:
One of the reports has a spokesperson for UMG saying that there is nothing marketable or some similar implication. That has to be a joke. Maybe for a mass market manufacturer but have they never heard of niche marketing? Haven't they seen the pent up demand? Small scale, probably, but categorically there and ready to be capitalised upon if handled in the right way. I'm not just referring to Bing's recordings either. Perhaps this is an indication of why some in the record industry have lost their way.

I would definitely agree. Other than the "Legendary Years..." box set from 1993 and various compilations, have Universal/MCA done anything else with Bing's extensive catalog? If so, I apologize in advance because I am uncertain (I guess I haven't found/discovered anything else). If it wasn't for the "Chronological"/"Through The Years" series, I don't know how else I would have been able to listen some of the non-compilation gems of Bing's Decca work (of course, other than constantly searching for the original 78's...).

Best regards,

Zane

**Posted by Richard Baker** 11/1/2011 6:24 pm

zanereed wrote:
Other than the "Legendary Years..." box set from 1993 and various compilations, have Universal/MCA done anything else with Bing's extensive catalog?

Best regards,

Zane

Zane,
There have been a few since 1993, but possibly you meant to include them in the phrase 'various compilations'. I particularly remember 'Some Fine Old Chestnuts/New Tricks' , 'Best Of Bing Crosby' - 2 CDs in 1996, 'Forever Bing' another 2 CDs in 2003, 'Holiday In Europe' from MCA Japan. Possibly there were one or two others, but basically your sentiments are correct. Few and far between.

Most of the Decca material is inevitably going to be of a compilation nature as it was mostly recorded before the days of the LP album.

I had thought that the recent inactivity from that Decca/UMG might have been attributable to the legal proceedings, but must now assume it is due to their assessment that they have no marketable value. A view that I find bewildering.

**Posted by Emily** 11/1/2011 7:23 pm

Richard Baker wrote:
I had thought that the recent inactivity from that Decca/UMG might have been attributable to the legal proceedings, but must now assume it is due to their assessment that they have no marketable value. A view that I find bewildering.

Bewildering? I find it infuriating. And actually, in the NPR article it is a Library of Congress employee who makes that statement. I'll stop myself before unleashing a string of expletives about what I think the he has in place of a brain.

Also, according to the NY Times article, Decca/UMG still retains the rights to the material despite the handover of the masters: http://www.nytimes.com/2011/01/10/arts/music/10masters.html?_r=1&src=twrhp

**Posted by Richard Baker** 12/1/2011 11:21 am

Emily

Thank you for your corrections.

This might be just a bit too much for my ageing grey-matter but have I got this right?
1 UMG has donated to L of C all their masters.
2 L of C pays costs of storing, preserving and digitising.
3 But UMG retain commercial rights.
4 Therefore L of C have no commercial rights (and don't think they are worth anything anyway) so have no motive to issue or licence anything for issue.
5 But, post digitisation, UMG will be able to use the digitised copies commercially (free of cost to them?).
6 But UMG have shown little or no inclination to do much with what they have and by their very action in donating seem to be demonstrating that they see little worth in the material.
7 And, presumably, the Crosby Family still have a right to royalties.

I'm still bewildered. And, yes, Emily, infuriated too, because I can still not see where and how any motivation might arise for the actual issue of any worthwhile material. I have no idea what unknowns might be hidden away - we are told of studio chatter - but undiscovered takes, tests, fluffs rehearsals? Possibly too much to expect after all these years, but it would be nice to see an inventory.

BTW I did UMG a (small) injustice - in my earlier post noting a few examples of UMG issues I failed to mention 'Academy Award Winners and Nominees' of 2000, a very good issue in which Wig Wiggins was directly instrumental. At that time there does seem to have been cooperation with fans and understanding of their wishes on the part of UMG.

**Posted by zanereed** 13/1/2011 3:29 am

Richard Baker wrote:
Zane,
There have been a few since 1993, but possibly you meant to include them in the phrase 'various compilations'. I particularly remember 'Some Fine Old Chestnuts/New Tricks' , 'Best Of Bing Crosby' - 2 CDs in 1996, 'Forever Bing' another 2 CDs in 2003, 'Holiday In Europe' from MCA Japan. Possibly there were one or two others, but basically your sentiments are correct. Few and far between.

Most of the Decca material is inevitably going to be of a compilation nature as it was mostly recorded before the days of the LP album.

I had thought that the recent inactivity from that Decca/UMG might have been attributable to the legal proceedings, but must now assume it is due to their assessment that they have no marketable value. A view that I find bewildering.

Hi Richard,

You are absolutely correct about the compilation nature. Besides the 1993 box set, the compilation I love the most is the one overseen by Wig ("A Centennial Anthology of His Decca Recordings" from 2003).

The more I read about this story, the more I'm bewildered as well. You make some great points, Emily.

**Posted by Ian Kerstein** 23/3/2022 6:29 pm

Apologies if this has been answered elsewhere - but is there now any knowledge of any of Bing's masters actually being destroyed in the fire?

Last edited by Ian Kerstein (23/3/2022 6:30 pm)

**Posted by STEPO** 26/6/2024 9:22 pm

Apparently according to Steve Hoffman on his music forum all of Bing's recordings that were recorded on tape for Decca between 1949 and 1957 were destroyed in the Universal fire ironic since Bing himself helped pioneer the use of tape for recordings instead of laquer discs.

Last edited by STEPO (20/11/2025 11:51 pm)

**Posted by Ian Kerstein** 26/6/2024 10:26 pm

Goodness me, Stepo. When considering what you've just written and told us about the destruction confirmation, it is ironic, indeed about Bing's hand in the pioneering of magnetic audio (and I also believe) video tape. I used to work in the record trade in the 1990's and early 2000's and I always thought for many reasons, it was not a good thing for all those individual record companies to be gradually swallowed up by eventually around just two or three conglomerates. Quite how this must have made his immediate family feel with also their own past differences (thankfully now seemingly settled) with Universal, heaven only knows.

Does anyone know where future (and recently past and present) audio compilers of Bing's music from these recordings now source the best avaialble material from?

Last edited by Ian Kerstein (27/6/2024 1:31 am)

**Posted by STEPO** 27/6/2024 1:53 pm

I suppose any new Bing releases of his Decca material would be sourced from a mixture of disc dubs as well as tape copies that were sent overseas for release initially. When the country singer Bill Anderson's Bear Family box set was compiled from his first few years with Decca they had to dub the set from vinyl, incidentally Bing recorded a Bill Anderson song "Still" on his "Great Country Songs" album.

Last edited by STEPO (20/11/2025 11:53 pm)

**Posted by Brunswick78** 12/4/2025 4:10 pm

I wonder if anything has happened (or will) with the LoC Universal masters.

**Posted by STEPO** 07/9/2026 9:42 pm

When the Bob Crosby box set was issued on Mosiac last year it said in the press release that it was mastered from original 78 pressings now as Bob Crosby recorded for Decca as well as his brother Bing it means that a number of original metal parts have obviously been lost or badly damaged, i also have read that the "Sons Of The Pioneers" recordings for Decca which contained several recordings with Roy Rogers suffered that tragic fate the Bear Family box set of those recordings had sixteen alternative versions in place of the released versions sadly although for a short they were both on the same label Bing never made a record with them although in 1940 Bing recorded "Tumbling Tumbleweeds" and in 1952 "Cool Water" with the Andrews Sisters.

Last edited by STEPO (07/9/2026 9:42 pm)

**Posted by Ian Kerstein** 08/9/2026 1:27 am

Did I read somewhere on some LP sleeve notes, before the advent of Bing's invested US magnetic tape becoming the industry standard, that there were such things as 78rpm "Master Discs" and also "Glass Discs". Can anyone enlighten me about these glass discs - or is this something I'm imagining from my late teenage years?

**Posted by STEPO** 08/9/2026 11:02 am

I think the glass discs came about because scrap metal had to be saved for the war effort so there was a shortage of metal parts that 78s were pressed from.