WE WELCOME THOSE WITH A GENUINE INTEREST IN BING CROSBY. YOU WILL BE ASKED THREE QUESTIONS WHEN YOU REGISTER. DEPENDING ON YOUR ANSWERS, WE WILL EITHER APPROVE OR NOT APPROVE YOUR MEMBERSHIP. This requirement arises from misuse of the forum by a few.
KEEP AN EYE ON:-
Jon Oye keeps adding images to his site Contemplations on Classic Movies and Music
David Lobosco has continual additions to his site The Bing Crosby News Archive
Tony Mead adds photos and other interesting material Bing's Photos
NOTE: If you are having trouble logging in, please contact David Lobosco at davidlobosco@yahoo.com.
Offline
Boy, Bing tried to record a great version of this song countless times, but not luck. I think it was discussed in another thread on here. Well I just uploaded the 1945 version and an unreleased take.
Not a fan of either one of them. I think by the end of 1945, Bing's voice was worn out and it did not translate to a dramatic song like Ol Man River.
What are your thoughts...
A take:
Unreleased take:
Last edited by Lobosco (14/5/2020 5:51 pm)
Offline
I still like wih the last few lines being one of the most powerful I've heard Bing in the mid-1940s. The 1941 one is YouTube, but that's probably the least of the efforts as the melody was changed too much to fit his octave. The 1928 is the best one he recorded for commercial use though I find his 1954 Buddy Cole one and the later Crosby medley concert renditions to be the best.
Offline
I completely agree about the 1945 version - those last few lines have amazing power to them, but on the whole I don’t think that that song at that tempo is suited to Bing. I know it sounds like a clichė, but you really do need a great rolling bass like Paul Robeson’s to bring it off successfully.
The ‘28 version was one of the first Crosby/Whiteman tracks I ever heard, so I’ve got a very soft spot for it, but the Buddy Cole version is just sooooo laid back..!
Offline
Bing made another recording of the song at a different tempo, which is not as good as the traditional versions.it is more of an up and down singing.
I prefer the beat of the 1920’s and then later towards the end of his life.
I have most versions by Bing.
Offline
Offline
I wouldn't say Bing's voice was worn out by 1945, but the song just doesn't suit him.
Offline
Lobosco wrote:
. I think by the end of 1945, Bing's voice was worn out and it did not translate to a dramatic song like Ol Man River.
David, did you really mean that? In 1945 Bing still had considerably more than half of his singing career ahead of him, with many stirring and powerful performances to come!
In some ways Ol' Man River is a problem song. It oozes weariness and futility, the impossibility of improving human things in contrast to the river that keeps rolling along.
So it is only in the phrases about ol' man river keeping rolling along that strength is called for - but it is the frail weary human that is uttering those stirring phrases. So is he doing it as a frail human in awe of the mighty river or does he attempt to emulate the power of the river?
The 1928 version is in a totally different league. Highly enjoyable but not really plunging into depths of emotion.
BTW I think it rather amusing to recount the story of Mrs Kern and Mrs Hammerstein who were together attending some function. Mrs Kern, introducing herself to a third party, said something to the effect that her husband wrote "Ol Man River" and Mrs Hammerstein interrupted to say that he didn't - it was her husband that wrote "Ol' Man River", while Mr Kern had written "Tum - Tum - TumTum" etc.
(Kern wrote the music, Hammerstein the lyric)
Offline
Richard Baker wrote:
Lobosco wrote:
. I think by the end of 1945, Bing's voice was worn out and it did not translate to a dramatic song like Ol Man River.
David, did you really mean that? In 1945 Bing still had considerably more than half of his singing career ahead of him, with many stirring and powerful performances to come!
In some ways Ol' Man River is a problem song. It oozes weariness and futility, the impossibility of improving human things in contrast to the river that keeps rolling along.
So it is only in the phrases about ol' man river keeping rolling along that strength is called for - but it is the frail weary human that is uttering those stirring phrases. So is he doing it as a frail human in awe of the mighty river or does he attempt to emulate the power of the river?
The 1928 version is in a totally different league. Highly enjoyable but not really plunging into depths of emotion.
BTW I think it rather amusing to recount the story of Mrs Kern and Mrs Hammerstein who were together attending some function. Mrs Kern, introducing herself to a third party, said something to the effect that her husband wrote "Ol Man River" and Mrs Hammerstein interrupted to say that he didn't - it was her husband that wrote "Ol' Man River", while Mr Kern had written "Tum - Tum - TumTum" etc.
(Kern wrote the music, Hammerstein the lyric)
Worn out might have been too strong of a word. I think that in 1945 his voice sounded tired. From singing non stop for the USO, records, movies, and radio shows I feel that his voice sounded weaker or strained as a result. Of course I just meant for the time he recorded Ol Man River. He had 32 years left to go.
Offline
And how the words to the song have changed from 1928 to now - words sung then aren’t sung now.
You can’t or don’t sing ......n....all work on the Mississippi.
The version I referred to earlier was recorded 31/12/1945 with Camarata and orchestra.
Not a particularly good recording.
Previous recording in the standard vein was a couple of years earlier with a John Scott.
Wonder why he did the Camarata side.
Offline
Probably for ‘Til The Clouds Roll By, and thankfully Bing didn’t sing the intro with the “n****** all work on the Mississippi” part, although it wouldn’t surprise me if he would’ve changed similarly to Sinatra changing it to “here we all work on the Mississippi.”
Offline
ModernBingFan0377 wrote:
Probably for ‘Til The Clouds Roll By, and thankfully Bing didn’t sing the intro with the “n****** all work on the Mississippi” part, although it wouldn’t surprise me if he would’ve changed similarly to Sinatra changing it to “here we all work on the Mississippi.”
Al Jolson recorded a version in the late 20s with the profanity included. I have it on a CD with otherwise good Jolson recordings. I try to avoid having to hear this record at all costs though.
Offline
Over time attitudes change and also meanings, which become a pain for one to adapt to a new meaning. One example is ‘gay’. When I was growing up it meant ‘happy’ e.g. the Fred Astaire film - The Gay Divorcee.
One could be so happy and gay, you can now but it has an entirely different meaning.
Offline
Or even Bing singing I Surrender Dear with "I may seem proud, I may act gay, it's just a pose, I'm not that way" which makes almost a different meaning, than what was intended with listening with today's ears.
Offline
I think gay is a little bit different than the n-word. I have still heard people say gay to mean happy. Gay doesn't necessarily have a derogatory meaning as the n-word does.
Offline
I realize that, I was just using it as an example of how the general public will view a word today vs then, obviously the n-word was bad then, but not as many people realized it then as people do now.
Offline
ModernBingFan0377 wrote:
I realize that, I was just using it as an example of how the general public will view a word today vs then, obviously the n-word was bad then, but not as many people realized it then as people do now.
That's so true. Imagine what words will be taboo in 2040!
Offline
I don’t really want to imagine that!
Offline
Lobosco,
I just looked at the label you posted and it says Camarata but when I played it it is the normal arrangement. Must see if I can find earlier version with JST to see if that is the one with a different tempo etc.
Offline
Went to YouTube and one can play the Camarata ‘standard version’ of the song.
Bing recorded the song in 1941 with Victor Young, but can’t hear it played, so I think this would be the version that is entirely different.
My Jonzo CD’s are back in Australia.
So, if you can play the 1941 version.
Offline
Instead of the ‘n’ word it can/is substituted with - coloureds all work....: people all.....:
Can have blokes all work and women all work.
Easy enough to change in this instance but not always can one change a word or words in a song.
To me, Bing’s worst song would have to be - With this Ring I Thee Wed.
Offline
OK, We all recognise that usage of some words has changed: meanings have changed and the degree of acceptability has changed, but perhaps this subject has now run it's course and in danger of being done to death?
Offline
And I was the accidental cause by mentioning the original verse, which is ironic since I requested this version of Ol’ Man River, thus Lobosco created this thread to show the song I requested.
Offline
Ol Man River was defined by Paul Robeson (also backed by Whiteman) in 1928.All subsequent versions by him or anyone else, have problems-EXCEPT for Crosby's exceptional (contemporary 1928) version., Bing's bouncy & jazzy dance band (Whiteman) version is a less serious vocal & more fun. A true product of the REAL jazz age. ( Bing, the older man & voice in 1945, should not have bothered).
Offline
Colin Bratkovich wrote:
Ol Man River was defined by Paul Robeson (also backed by Whiteman) in 1928.All subsequent versions by him or anyone else, have problems-EXCEPT for Crosby's exceptional (contemporary 1928) version., Bing's bouncy & jazzy dance band (Whiteman) version is a less serious vocal & more fun. A true product of the REAL jazz age. ( Bing, the older man & voice in 1945, should not have bothered).
Another excellent version is one Gordon MacRae did for Capitol Records. Excellent version but I agree Paul Robeson owned the song!