20/7/2013 8:29 am  #1


Bing at 78 RPM

When I Emailed Richard about about joining the Bing Crosby fan forum my main question was how many 78's did Bing release?

Richard replied

78s were being issued until 1957 and Morgereth lists 1161 titles in that format. A very few of these - almost wholly from the years as a band vocalist would have had non Bing titles in the pair but all from the time he went solo will have been paired with other Bing Titles. This ignores issues with different "takes" of which there are quite a few.  It is fair to assume therefore that there are around 580 discs. HOWEVER, many were reissued in different pairings and I know of some titles that appeared on anything up to 18 different 78 issues. And that is before you look at non US/ UK issues - there were Indian, Australian and South African issues as well as a few European. A complete collection of all variations would run to thousands (and would probably be impossible to assemble). 

So the discussion turned to the possiblity of obtaining a complete 78 collection of Bings recorded output. But then Richard went on to write that despite many of Bings records selling in the millions, a number of his records, his early brunswick records, are actually very rare and are known to exist in the 10's or less.

I was suprised by this so my question is - What is Bing Crosby's rarest 78 rpm release? Obviously a definitive answer is impossible but number of possiblities could be disscussed. I would exclude radio transcription discs and any record that didn't list Bing on the label.

This would help me in a practical sense as I would know which records to keep an eye out for.

 

20/7/2013 9:51 am  #2


Re: Bing at 78 RPM

Morgan

This is obviously a continuation of an earlier discussion.  Some of the figures I gave were approximations. 

I also would be interested to hear of other's assessments of rarity, but so far as I personally am aware the disc which included "Old Black Joe - Carry Me Back To Old Virginny" is the rarest title in original format that is listed in most discographies. But then it was not technically an issue because it was recorded for private use. It has subsequently appeared on several LP and CD issues and in those formats is easy to obtain.

You have the complications of alternative takes, private recordings, discarded takes that have subsequently surfaced, and so on). Personally I think that there are possibly no straight answers because all would be hedged around by qualifications. (What was an issue? If it was never issued on 78 but later on LP/CD, does it count as an issue? 

If your interest is in what you can reasonably manage to find on the second hand market, there are some items that you are certainly unlikely to find in original format. 


 

 

21/7/2013 11:02 am  #3


Re: Bing at 78 RPM

Richard

Between the internet, "Cronological" and "Through the years" CD's, really no Bing release is unavaliable and any serious fan is able to to get a copy. But this doesn't really matter. For example Robert Johnson 78's have sold for $1000+ but anyone can buy his entire recorded output on a CD for less than $20. Generally the CD would sound better than most of the few remaining 78's.

I would also point out that any artist of merit would have had private records, out takes, master tapes and other memorabilia that would be unavaliable to the general public.

Really I'm refering to comercial releases (in this case to 78 format) which should be avaliable on the second hand market but for various reasons almost never show up. These for me define a rare 78.

For me though the 78's are important because these are the format that were released when Bing first recorded them and all subsequent releases until the advent of magnetic tape were copied from the 78. There is nothing quite like putting the 78 on the turntable and hearing Bing come through via an 80+ year old disc.
 

     Thread Starter
 

21/7/2013 12:53 pm  #4


Re: Bing at 78 RPM

Morgan, 

I know what you are after really - I fear I can get a little picky about definitions but it comes out of the job I used to do. Forgive me.

The fact is that, unlike some other artists, Bing had such a long reign and was so popular that many of the song titles were issued on several labels, and even on the same label under different numbers.

Some of those issues, with the otherwise identical title, are much rarer than others, and there were some dedicated collectors who pursued them very enthusiastically. But I have reason to believe that there are very few left who take this approach.

Most of the people with whom I now have contact pursue the music. Indeed one prominent member of the Crosby community made fun of me in public on another forum, for hanging on to my LPs - he was in the course of ditching his CDs in favour of keeping all his music on his digital player in MP3 format.

Personally I am not an expert on 78s. At one time I had a fairly solid collection, mainly confined to late 1930s on, but have retained very few, mainly for sentimental reasons, and they never get played. 

If you wish to build a collection I suggest you search ebay and as many of the record dealers who list their auction stock on line as you can. A good discography covering 78 issues in detail would be a great advantage - I personally fall back on "Bing Crosby: A Discography, Radio Program List and Filmography" by Timothy A. Morgereth published by McFarland & Company 1987. This covers all 78s and ends in 1957 so far as records are concerned. There are a few errors but more so in the radio listings than for records. 
 

 

04/9/2013 3:17 pm  #5


Re: Bing at 78 RPM

I have a soft place in my heart for Bing Crosby's voice on 78rpm records. In my teens and early twenties, just before Bing's death, my entire Crosby record collection was composed of some dozens of his 78s.  I started collecting 78s after restoring an old tabletop Victrola during my first year in high school. The core of the 78 collection were about 20 disks from the farm where my mother grew up and included two Crosby records, but once I started looking for records at charity stores and yard sales I really began to see how popular Bing's recordings must have been.  When I bought about 50 78s from a highschool classmate, Mike Shannahan, a third or more were Crosbys, indicating as well how meaningful Bing was in his Irish-American family.  Few of my Crosby 78s are from earlier than the latter 1930s, and by far most of them are from the 1940s.  I don't play them very much anymore, but when I do, even the pops and sizzle in the background remind me of how universally loved Bing's voice was in the middle decades of my parents' lives.

 

04/9/2013 6:22 pm  #6


Re: Bing at 78 RPM

When I was a young bloke - 12 or so - and visiting my Grandmother, who had an old upright gramophone with a pile of 78's from the late 20's and early 30's, there were a couple of Bing records. As soon as I arrived at her house my first question was 'can I play Bing, please?'.
The record was 'Thanks'/'Black Moonlight'. This poor old record had been played so often that I had to slow the speed down to make it sound like Bing. There was a small indicator that you could speed the record up or slow it down. Probably went down to about 65rpm.
One wonders how those 78's lasted so long with a heavy arm and steel needle grinding its way round and round.

 

04/9/2013 8:04 pm  #7


Re: Bing at 78 RPM

A Long time ago, a million years BC.....


Peace and Love! 
 

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